Interview with Jonathan Bright for The 'Greek Paranormal Society' team
(click here for the full version in Greek)
Jonathan
Bright is one of the leading Greek modern researchers of the paranormal. Some
of his writings have been published in several compilations from Archetypo and
agnosto publications and over the last 20 years he has contributed various
pieces in Greek magazines, such as Strange and Mystiki Ellada (i.e. ‘Secret
Greece’), and recently, in Fortean Times. In Greece, he is also known from his
frequent appearances in television shows such as Oi Pyles tou Anexigitou (i.e.
‘Gates of the Unexplained’) and Kodikas Mystirion (i.e. ‘Code of Mysteries’)
and his interviews for the press, various websites and radio shows. More recently, he has also appeared as a guest in the H2 series In Search of Aliens (episode 'The Hunt for Atlantis'). Over the
last years he has been investigating famous and less known legends and mysteries around the
world and it is in his upcoming plans to present the important and mind
boggling material that he had gathered from these investigations in public,
both in Greece and abroad.
1) Jonathan, first of all, on behalf of the Greek paranormal society, I'd like to thank you for accepting our invitation to this interview. You are among
the few persons in Greece to have carried out investigations seeking proof and
knowledge in regards to the existence of ‘spirits’. So, I've been really looking forward to asking you, ...what is
ghost-hunting to you?
Thank you for the invitation. To begin with, I have to clarify that the target of my investigations has never been to prove the existence of ‘spirits’; in contrast to the general prevailing belief for those concerned with such issues, my venture into ‘strange’ and the exploration of the unknown is not a result of some need to confirm the continuity of existence after death. Answers to such questions -usually described as ‘metaphysical’- can be obtained through a philosophical pursue of these ideas which is usually the outcome of the inner quest for knowledge (the most important answers, I believe, can be obtained from the exploration of the ‘inner self’) rather than from the external search, the results of which usually are limited to a phenomenological observation, which most of the times is insufficient to provide safe conclusions.
Thank you for the invitation. To begin with, I have to clarify that the target of my investigations has never been to prove the existence of ‘spirits’; in contrast to the general prevailing belief for those concerned with such issues, my venture into ‘strange’ and the exploration of the unknown is not a result of some need to confirm the continuity of existence after death. Answers to such questions -usually described as ‘metaphysical’- can be obtained through a philosophical pursue of these ideas which is usually the outcome of the inner quest for knowledge (the most important answers, I believe, can be obtained from the exploration of the ‘inner self’) rather than from the external search, the results of which usually are limited to a phenomenological observation, which most of the times is insufficient to provide safe conclusions.
This
certainly does not reduce by any means the worth of external research and
investigarion –we really live in a strange world and it is natural for us to
feel the need to become familiar and define our exact position in
it. And in spite of the marginalization
that usually comes along, there is enough charm in the role of ‘explorer’ that
we are invited to perform in our quest for studying and shedding light to its
less known and mysterious extremities.
As
such a type of investigation, ‘ghost-hunting’ can, up to a certain extent,
fulfill this part and provide enough excitement to the ambitious ex(o-)plorers.
However we must note that with the raising publicity that it has been gaining
in the last decades, mainly through the numerous reality shows and relevant
films that are being produced each year, it has now established its own
culture, from which certain orientations have become clear, as far as the
targets of the investigation are concerned and the clues that are anticipated
to be found. The standard practice which is being followed, strongly based on
the documentation of energy or wave ‘anomalies’ with the use of various types
of devices, seems like an attempt to secure a scientific (‘pseudo-scientific’
according to others) basis for the investigation. On the other hand, there is the opposing view that the interpretation
of data procured in this way, as a result of the presence of ‘spirits’ is
entirely groundless –to which, mostly, I also agree –as is the belief in
‘spirits’ itself for that matter, which in ghost-hunting is accepted a priori.
Although I believe I am among the first to have presented this type of investigation in Greece, (at least in accordance with the modern techniques followed in its current form), with the publication in Mystiki Ellada of the investigation of a ‘poltergeist’ case that I had performed in a house in Athens, I generally try to act free from any dogmatic forms and axiomatic beliefs. If there is a motto that could largely reflect the principles that characterize my own investigation that would be ‘nothing is axiomatically accepted – everything is open to investigation’...
Although I believe I am among the first to have presented this type of investigation in Greece, (at least in accordance with the modern techniques followed in its current form), with the publication in Mystiki Ellada of the investigation of a ‘poltergeist’ case that I had performed in a house in Athens, I generally try to act free from any dogmatic forms and axiomatic beliefs. If there is a motto that could largely reflect the principles that characterize my own investigation that would be ‘nothing is axiomatically accepted – everything is open to investigation’...
What
personally intrigues me is not a proof that ‘spirits’ of the dead exist among
us, but rather the investigation of phenomena that, in spite of being known for
hundreds or thousands of years, still remain covered by a dark veil of mystery.
By ridding of all conventionally accepted beliefs and bias (from whichever
source they may originate), I feel I’m moving in the right direction towards that
which really interests me: the truth behind such mysterious phenomena that both
tradition and science, so far have been unable to efficiently explain, with
their approach limited to scratching the surface and to deal with these
phenomena by creating a terminology that is simply used to categorize them, and
provide the illusion that such mysteries are well studied and sufficiently
understood.
So,
taking all the above into consideration, I generally prefer referring to what I
do as the 'investigation of particular places and strange phenomena'
rather than ‘ghost-hunting’.
2).If you had the luxury of organizing a team of researchers -‘hunters’, what sort of people would you choose? (by setting certain age criteria, for instance, or even their specializing in certain fields?) Would you include in your team a medium? An ‘alafroiskiotos*'? A skeptic?
2).If you had the luxury of organizing a team of researchers -‘hunters’, what sort of people would you choose? (by setting certain age criteria, for instance, or even their specializing in certain fields?) Would you include in your team a medium? An ‘alafroiskiotos*'? A skeptic?
(*the
word 'alafroiskiotos' literally means 'light-shadowed': In Greek folklore, usually the
one who is able to see faeries and spirits and perceive the Otherworld)
Actually
there are several friends and fellow-researchers that have already participated
in my investigations. Sometimes we were just a team of two and other times
sufficient enough (7-8 members) to split to two groups, but we always acted as
a team, with the responsibilities distributed according to the occasion, the
special capabilities of each person and the number of available hands
(-unfortunately my own pair in almost none of these cases have felt
sufficient). To this informal team I have given the name ‘Urban Tales’ (or
‘Jonathan Bright’s Urban Tales’,
since the only steady nucleus and organizer of these investigations has always
been me), and this I still use in most of my expeditions.
You are asking if there would be place for an alafroiskiotos, a medium or a skeptic in such a team. Well, I think that a certain dose of all these qualities I possess myself. To some extent everything is useful and can be profitable to an investigation when applied in the proper way and at the right dose. For example, there are moments while I'm investigating such a place that I may suddenly feel an impulse to act in a particular way, snap a picture turning to a particular direction, choose to use a particular device, etc. I certainly cannot tell what would have happened had I acted in a different way, but I believe that some important clues in my investigations have come up in this way.
I will certainly agree that personal experience by itself cannot be easily accepted as objective evidence. However just as certain instruments detect fluctuations in a certain field, so does the human body respond to the various types of energy in which it is exposed and affected (the electromagnetic energy for instance, the detected sudden changes in which, even in 'ghost-hunting', are interpreted as a possible indication of something else that may also be taking place), so I don't think that it's wrong to pay attention to signs that may be caught by one's internal antenna -always examining the role that psychological state may also play in the formation of the experience to the concerned individual/witness at the given time.
As many of my friends are well aware (particularly those who have been required to assist in carrying) to such investigations, I usually carry along a number of bags filled up with cameras, recorders, and all kinds of weird little instruments and gadgets, some of which even of my own invention. I may eventually experiment with some of them ('everything is open to investigation'), but, as I have earlier said, this doesn't necessarily make the investigation more scientific since the interpretation of the indications and clues and their exact meaning is not always very clear. There are times when intuitional perception (which may be more active in individuals more sensitive to certain frequencies) could prove equally important, particularly considering that we are dealing with phenomena that cannot always be perceived through our main senses. And besides, the idea that every observer -consciously or subconsciously- may potentially interact with that which is being observed is entirely scientific, so in any case, one cannot just simply exclude from the research the human factor.
You are asking if there would be place for an alafroiskiotos, a medium or a skeptic in such a team. Well, I think that a certain dose of all these qualities I possess myself. To some extent everything is useful and can be profitable to an investigation when applied in the proper way and at the right dose. For example, there are moments while I'm investigating such a place that I may suddenly feel an impulse to act in a particular way, snap a picture turning to a particular direction, choose to use a particular device, etc. I certainly cannot tell what would have happened had I acted in a different way, but I believe that some important clues in my investigations have come up in this way.
I will certainly agree that personal experience by itself cannot be easily accepted as objective evidence. However just as certain instruments detect fluctuations in a certain field, so does the human body respond to the various types of energy in which it is exposed and affected (the electromagnetic energy for instance, the detected sudden changes in which, even in 'ghost-hunting', are interpreted as a possible indication of something else that may also be taking place), so I don't think that it's wrong to pay attention to signs that may be caught by one's internal antenna -always examining the role that psychological state may also play in the formation of the experience to the concerned individual/witness at the given time.
As many of my friends are well aware (particularly those who have been required to assist in carrying) to such investigations, I usually carry along a number of bags filled up with cameras, recorders, and all kinds of weird little instruments and gadgets, some of which even of my own invention. I may eventually experiment with some of them ('everything is open to investigation'), but, as I have earlier said, this doesn't necessarily make the investigation more scientific since the interpretation of the indications and clues and their exact meaning is not always very clear. There are times when intuitional perception (which may be more active in individuals more sensitive to certain frequencies) could prove equally important, particularly considering that we are dealing with phenomena that cannot always be perceived through our main senses. And besides, the idea that every observer -consciously or subconsciously- may potentially interact with that which is being observed is entirely scientific, so in any case, one cannot just simply exclude from the research the human factor.
But
in any case, I repeat, whenever the collected data had to pass through
subjective filters they will need to be examined with extra care and caution
and possibly in comparison with other available clues. Balance is the key here.
Practically though, when the duration of the investigation is limited, I'm usually left with very little time for experimentation other than with the use of the various documentation/recording devices that I carry with me, which cover a range far more extensive than the perceptual field of our sense organs. And since in this way I have collected a substantial number of impressing clues, I like to say that more 'alafroiskiotes' than myself are... my cameras!
3.) What has your experience shown so far in regards to the presence of spirits? And are there 'good' and 'evil' spirits?
With the term 'spirit' we usually refer to some part of consciousness or 'ego' that is believed, under certain circumstances, after death to be left behind somehow trapped to our world, and 'haunt' a certain place -or a person. Although traditionally these words are used a synonyms, for me 'spirit' has a much different meaning than the word 'ghost', which comes from Old English 'gast', meaning something frightening ('gaestan' means 'to frighten'), or 'phantom', which comes from Greek 'fantasma' (etymologically has the same meaning with 'apparition'), from the verb 'faeno'(pheno)=appear (not from 'fantasy' as some believe), that is, a 'pheno-menon'... A 'spirit' is something more specific, it is not just a phenomenon, (something that appears or that is otherwise perceived), but also an interpretation.
Practically though, when the duration of the investigation is limited, I'm usually left with very little time for experimentation other than with the use of the various documentation/recording devices that I carry with me, which cover a range far more extensive than the perceptual field of our sense organs. And since in this way I have collected a substantial number of impressing clues, I like to say that more 'alafroiskiotes' than myself are... my cameras!
3.) What has your experience shown so far in regards to the presence of spirits? And are there 'good' and 'evil' spirits?
With the term 'spirit' we usually refer to some part of consciousness or 'ego' that is believed, under certain circumstances, after death to be left behind somehow trapped to our world, and 'haunt' a certain place -or a person. Although traditionally these words are used a synonyms, for me 'spirit' has a much different meaning than the word 'ghost', which comes from Old English 'gast', meaning something frightening ('gaestan' means 'to frighten'), or 'phantom', which comes from Greek 'fantasma' (etymologically has the same meaning with 'apparition'), from the verb 'faeno'(pheno)=appear (not from 'fantasy' as some believe), that is, a 'pheno-menon'... A 'spirit' is something more specific, it is not just a phenomenon, (something that appears or that is otherwise perceived), but also an interpretation.
Having
made this clarification, now I can say that, so far, the data that I have
gathered cannot tell me much about the presence or no-presence of 'spirits'. I
can show you a number of 'apparitions', or even 'ghosts', (believe me, some of
them can definitely induce fright) that I have documented, but I am in no
position to positively claim that among them there are 'spirits', too... By
saying that (the reason why I earlier mentioned that phenomenological
observation is insufficient to provide safe conclusions), I mean that even when
during the investigation we document a manifestation that may appear to match the
traditional idea prevailing for 'spirits' (the image of 'phantom faces' with
clearly defined features, 'full body apparitions', even sound recordings, such as
voices, etc) nobody can tell for sure whether what has been documented is a
'consciousness' trapped in space, or something different...
For example, it could be a cold 'imprint' that, like a picture, or a movie scene could have been recorded at the specific spot in a mysterious, unknown (and yet, possibly natural) way, that under certain circumstances is being projected or played back as an echo. Or it could be some sort of 'thoughtform' (-'tulpa'). Even in cases where there appears to be some sort of response to certain challenges or something that looks like an interraction with the investigator, this sound, this image could to some extent be projected, draw power (and perhaps even materialize) from the subconscious of the investigator himself, or of another witness who may be present– an approach mainly investigated by parapsychology. And obviously there are more possible explanations, as well as ideas that we are in no position to understand just yet.
For example, it could be a cold 'imprint' that, like a picture, or a movie scene could have been recorded at the specific spot in a mysterious, unknown (and yet, possibly natural) way, that under certain circumstances is being projected or played back as an echo. Or it could be some sort of 'thoughtform' (-'tulpa'). Even in cases where there appears to be some sort of response to certain challenges or something that looks like an interraction with the investigator, this sound, this image could to some extent be projected, draw power (and perhaps even materialize) from the subconscious of the investigator himself, or of another witness who may be present– an approach mainly investigated by parapsychology. And obviously there are more possible explanations, as well as ideas that we are in no position to understand just yet.
These
are all theoretical approaches of course, as theoretical is also the idea of
‘spirits’. All I can do is to constantly keep these traditional beliefs at the
edge of my mind, and try to put them to test at every opportunity.
I have participated in several extensive discussions about the subject of ‘spirits’, oftentimes even on TV, so there is no need to repeat my views here. However, if someone is willing to accept the traditional explanation, then I presume, from there it’s easy to proceed with dividing spirits to ‘good’ and ‘evil’, since while being alive, according to their character, people may too be classified in these two categories.
But there is something still that I consider very important. As it is well known, an enigmatic and controversial subject that has been the center of my studies and researches for many years is that of the ‘Shadow’. Exactly what is the ‘Shadow’? …I certainly would not describe it as a ‘spirit’, but rather as ‘energy’, or perhaps a ‘maelstrom’. I will not discuss the issue farther at present (anyone interested may read some of my views at the separate blog dedicated particularly in this subject), but I do mention the ‘Shadow’ here, because I have observed that a very large amount of phenomena that are traditionally attributed to ‘spirits’, like the 'old-hag'/'nightmare' (sleep paralysis with so called 'hallucinations'), 'poltergeists', and even ‘demons’ (the concept of ‘Devil’ also includes several elements borrowed from there), in fact originate from the 'Shadow'.
I have participated in several extensive discussions about the subject of ‘spirits’, oftentimes even on TV, so there is no need to repeat my views here. However, if someone is willing to accept the traditional explanation, then I presume, from there it’s easy to proceed with dividing spirits to ‘good’ and ‘evil’, since while being alive, according to their character, people may too be classified in these two categories.
But there is something still that I consider very important. As it is well known, an enigmatic and controversial subject that has been the center of my studies and researches for many years is that of the ‘Shadow’. Exactly what is the ‘Shadow’? …I certainly would not describe it as a ‘spirit’, but rather as ‘energy’, or perhaps a ‘maelstrom’. I will not discuss the issue farther at present (anyone interested may read some of my views at the separate blog dedicated particularly in this subject), but I do mention the ‘Shadow’ here, because I have observed that a very large amount of phenomena that are traditionally attributed to ‘spirits’, like the 'old-hag'/'nightmare' (sleep paralysis with so called 'hallucinations'), 'poltergeists', and even ‘demons’ (the concept of ‘Devil’ also includes several elements borrowed from there), in fact originate from the 'Shadow'.
4.) A last question, before I thank you for your time. What kind of advice you would give to ambitious researchers/ghost-hunters?
Finally,
a question that I can reply in a single line. Well, my friend, everything you want
to know is here... :)
Source: https://www.facebook.com/greekparanormalsociety/posts/655665257821665
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